Episode 40

RE-RUN: What Jahquel J Knew All Along

Octavia Marie talks with Jaquel, a prolific author in Black romance. They discuss Jaquel's extensive literary universe, the personal connections readers have with her work, and the dynamics of her characters, particularly in her latest release, Heart of a Goon.

The conversation delves into reader reactions, character development, and the marketing strategies that have contributed to Jaquel's success. Additionally, they touch on the importance of self-care for writers and the authenticity of dialogue across different storylines. In this engaging conversation, Jahquel J. and Octavia Marie delve into the intricacies of character development, the writing process, and the balance between realism and hope in storytelling.

Books Mentioned:

Staten Island Love Story

Capone

10,000 Hours with a Rich Menace (Caselli Family Book 1)

Don Caselli (Caselli Family Book 2)

Heart of a Goon

Capri

Find these and other recommendations at The CultureLit online BookShop and support independent bookstores at Visit my bookshop!

Culture Lit is a community celebrating black women and black love, and a reminder that black women deserve joy, love success, second chances, and all the beautiful magic the world has to offer.

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Music credit: Cool Jazz Beat by FASOL PROD

A Subito Media production

Transcript
:

Taking up space isn't always about commanding a room.

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Sometimes it's quieter than that.

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It's the life you build when nobody's

watching the dreams, you actually let

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yourself chase instead of just carrying

around the yes, you finally say to the

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thing that's been sitting in your chest

waiting, the boundary you hold around your

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time, your energy, your creative life.

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It's believing on an ordinary Tuesday

that what you're building matters.

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That your story deserves room to grow.

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Your creativity, your joy, your

desires, all of it gets to take

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up space because you are here to

experience something rich and alive.

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And if lately your world has started

to feel too small, too tight,

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too much like your managing life,

instead of actually living it,

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that's not a sign to shrink further.

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That's the signal to expand.

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Jaque J got that signal

and she answered it.

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This week it was announced that Jowell

signed a seven figure multi-book deal

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for an indie author who built her

entire universe, one book, one reader,

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one devoted community at a time.

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That is not a small thing.

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That is what happens when you keep showing

up for your work, even before the world

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catches up to what you already knew.

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I had a chance to sit with her late last

year, and I've been waiting for the right

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moment to run this conversation back.

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This week felt right because she

talked about so much more than writing.

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She talked about protecting your

creative energy, building something

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that lasts, and trusting the story.

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Even when you can't see

where it's going, press play.

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This one is worth your full attention.

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Here's my conversation with Jocko J and

remember, be soft, be bold, be visible.

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Speaker: Hi, and welcome to Culture

Lit, a podcast and community that

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explores black women in romantic love

through the lens of romance novels.

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I'm your host, Octavia Marie.

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Each episode of Culturally Trains a

spotlight on a new Black Romance novel,

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and then deep dives into the many

themes facing black women and love.

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After 40, be ready to laugh, sigh, and

talk about black women falling in love.

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Yes, sex too, and the black

authors writing their stories.

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Welcome back to culturally.

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I'm your host, Octavia Marie, and

today I'm trying really hard not

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to completely fan girl because

y'all, we have her in the house.

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If you spent any time on Book

Talk Bookstagram or just in the

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Black Romance community, you

already know her pen runs deep.

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Her stories have built an entire universe,

one that connects families, neighborhoods,

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and generations across series in

ways no one else is doing right now.

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From the Staten Island Love Stories and

the Delgado and Turnovers to the Brookwood

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and the Ellis to her latest release, heart

of a Goon and the upcoming Ashburn series.

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And let me tell you, we are obsessed.

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I am talking about the one and only jaquel

J, the author whose work has readers

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and entire book clubs in a choke hold.

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Hi Jaque.

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Welcome.

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Hey, thank you for having me.

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I'm so excited.

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So this is kind of on a personal,

but I was in treatment for cancer

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a few years ago, so I want you to

know that Statin, I, starting with

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Statin, I love story, got me through.

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Four hours, uh, chemo treatment

every couple of weeks.

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So I'd kind of disappear into your world.

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Um, and I started with chemo and I was

like, I need something to get me through.

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I was like, oh, this, it

popped up on my, in my kil.

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I was like, oh, I haven't

read her in a long time.

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Lemme, you know, jump back in here.

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So I started with that

and then went into, um.

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I was like, okay, Capone is next.

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And it, you got me through for

about two years of treatment.

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I'm so excited to talk to you.

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That's a first.

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That's amazing.

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Second, I done stressed

you out during chemo.

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No, and I was, luckily I started

where I did, 'cause all of

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the books were already out.

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I don't think I have read

anything else I have, but.

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I can't get out of the job first.

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So how does that feel?

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We were originally scheduled to talk in

early October, so this works out perfect

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for me because Heart of the Goon is out.

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But how does that feel?

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Everybody is talking about you

from readers, you know, authors,

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you kind of have, everybody

is waiting now, like hell no.

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What just happened?

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So how does that feel for you?

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Um, it feels amazing.

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I'm still in shock sometimes.

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But I do get sad when everybody's

like, you got me in the slump, and I'm

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like, I didn't mean to, that wasn't my

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Speaker 2: intention, because

the girlies are not okay.

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The time, the,

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Speaker: like the entire timeline

right now are losing their

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minds over Zoya and goons story.

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Right now, when you started this,

did you anticipate this kind of

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reaction or how does it feel seeing

this real time reaction of people

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as people are reading and commenting

and going down this rabbit hole?

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So when I was writing Heart of

a Goon, I knew that because Goon

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was such a character, everybody

couldn't wait to hear from.

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Zoya was one of those characters

where everybody loved her, but

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they really didn't know her.

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Right.

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So I kind of knew when I was writing

her that a lot of women would

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relate to her, and just the dynamic

between them two, I, I just knew

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that people were gonna be like, oh

my God, Zoya, oh my God, I love, go.

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Gloria, why are you doing this?

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Like, I already knew and I had

warned people, I made a TikTok

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like, Hey, not too much on her.

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Like, be patient.

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Like you know, let's ride

this wave out a little bit.

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Let her see what she do.

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So I kind of knew that the dynamic

between them two would be back and forth

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and people would be like, oh my God.

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Like what did I just read?

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Feel like women.

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Or they weren't as like, 'cause I

felt like they gave Capri a hard time.

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They gave Amy a hard time.

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The girls were a little harsh on them.

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But I don't, I don't feel like

they're, as it, it felt like, just

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like scrolling through the social

media and just listening to the

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conversations that had happened.

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It almost felt like I, it felt

like more women, I get this,

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I understood her a lot more.

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Right.

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What It felt a little different.

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Their reaction to Zoya than Capri

and the mistakes and things.

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I don't know if they understood Deja.

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Pin a little bit more where it

comes to her female characters,

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that there's this period of growth

and these things are happening.

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But it, it felt like immediately

they understood Zoya.

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Yeah, for sure.

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I think a lot of it was Amira

holding up to themselves.

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Mm-hmm.

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So while they were being angry at some

of the things she did, it was kind

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of like, dang, I do that too, like.

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I'm a self sabotage too, so I

think a lot of them could really

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understood, understand where she was

coming from, because in the Delgado

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Universe, we didn't get much on Zoya.

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We just know she's this lawyer.

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Like mm-hmm.

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She's confident, but we

didn't get much on her.

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Whereas with Capri, we got her

through Capone and Capanna series.

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So as much as they were hard on her,

they didn't really truly understand

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her until we got into her season.

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But with.

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Zoe, I think it kind of surprised

them because anytime we see her,

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she's just this big presence.

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She's the big dog.

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So I think once they realize

like, hey, like she really, she's

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struggling, like I can relate to that.

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Yeah.

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And I, and it was, I did see there

were some, actually, there were some

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women, they were kind of, you know,

had like, they were shocked that

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so many women identified with her.

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And I think sometimes we don't

leave ru for different experiences.

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Mm-hmm.

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Every woman, they experience

trauma differently.

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They experience pain differently.

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They experienced greeting, and I

don't know if people even a little

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bit with Capri, some, there were,

there was some type of trauma.

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Um.

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And, and some of her stuff worked,

but with Zoya, I think people

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understood immediately because

they had read Menace that there

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was some, some additional mm-hmm.

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Some additional triggers there.

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Yeah.

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And so I, it seemed like

they were a little bit more

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gracious with her, I think.

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Yeah.

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I, I, I think they were more

gracious than I thought.

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I just knew they were

gonna rip Zoya apart.

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Same.

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And I was just like, you

know, be patient with her.

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'cause a lot of us struggle with some

of the things she struggles with.

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And for the women that couldn't

understand, like, why so many relate.

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I always, when somebody

asked me that, I was like.

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Thank God that they can't relate.

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That's a blessing that you

cannot relate with the things

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that Zoya is going through.

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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

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Exactly.

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But it

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Speaker: doesn't take away the fact

that there are women that are, you

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know, the strong friend, the friend

that is there for everybody, but

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nobody really is there for the, for

them or know what's really going on.

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So that's what I kind of wanted

to bring kind of a spotlight too,

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when it came to Zoya, because she's

just this strong presence in Capri

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and Blair's life that she doesn't

never let anybody be there for her.

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Exactly you, you were saying, you

said earlier that people were kinda

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waiting on Goon and Zoya story,

which I found so interesting.

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'cause like you said, people got

to know Capri and they got to know

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Capadona through Capone story.

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They got to know, you know, Capri, some in

Cap Capone story and then Capitano story.

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So by the time people

felt like they knew her.

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And I thought, I was like,

nobody really knew much.

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Goon.

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He only said about six words.

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That's exactly how I, that.

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Three words and everybody was

like, we need a story on him.

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I'm like, I never gave

any of his background.

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And then I slowly gave little pieces

of you found out that he's Jamaican

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and just small things, but never

enough to really know his full story.

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So I'm like, he said three words.

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What do y'all wanna hear from him?

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And I was like, I dunno.

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I was kind of waiting on, you

know, this, I was like, okay,

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I'm, I'm gonna rock with it.

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I'm gonna rock with it.

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Now Zoya did interest me 'cause I, of

course, you know, I knew so many people

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can see themselves and hurt and even just

a little bit like, you know, the parents

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that my father died when I was young.

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And so some of the stuff, you know, just

from what we saw initially with Zoya.

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I recognize immediately.

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Um, so you recognize the walls, you

recognize the confidence and you know what

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you see on the outside, but you also know

that nah, there's a deeper story there.

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There's, you know, there's grief

that there's clearly unhealed grief.

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Um, and so we got to see

that play out finally, um, in

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goo in the heart of a goon.

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Yeah.

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When you put the Ellis together,

was Goom gonna always be Zoe's guy?

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Did you always know when you

started these stories that those

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two were going to be the couple.

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So they were always going to be a couple.

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Okay.

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I didn't have a book planned for Goon.

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I had small chapters within other

books like him, and Zoya was

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gonna be within the EM series.

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Wow.

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But it was so much going on with

them that I was like, you know what?

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Let me give them a book.

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Let me, let me see where this goes.

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But I always knew they

were gonna be together.

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But I was trying to decide if I

give Goon his own series or if

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I add another book to the Ellis.

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So in the end, when I just started

writing it, I felt like it was

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taken as much as it's Goons book.

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It's also Zoya story too.

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So I was like, I'll just merge them both.

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So you get a little bit of the

Delgado Infernos, but you also

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get the Ellis all in one book.

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Speaker 2: And

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Speaker: the ca family dynamics

are so intense when we had menace

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in 10,000 hours and then Don and

now Heart of a Goon and Zoya.

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And of course we have Cora coming up who

can, especially between Menace and Don.

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And then from Zoya, and I'm assuming

of course we'll see that each kind

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of tick took in that trauma and.

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That grief in different ways.

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And we have Menace and Cora

of course, we're the oldest.

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And, uh, Zoya and Dom were the youngest.

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How do you keep each sibling story

distinct while still maintaining

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that, that family thread?

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They, when it comes to each sibling,

they kind of speak to me and they

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honestly tell me who they are.

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Like menace.

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When I was developing Menace, I

was kind of like, no, I'm not.

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I cannot make this man like this.

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Like, no, he's gonna be super, and I

warn people like, Hey, he's different

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and this is a little bit different.

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And I did the same with Stevie.

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I'm like, Hey, Stevie's not my typical

F, M, and C, but I relate with her so

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much because I'm quirky like Stevie is.

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And sometimes I be in my own

world, but they all took on.

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Uh, space of their own.

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And I kind of married them

after my own siblings.

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Siblings in a way.

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So I took small personality traits

from each sibling and I just kind of

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like merged them and made the Ellis.

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Okay.

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So that's just really how it came to be.

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And were you surprised?

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'cause people actually, I don't think

I find myself doing it too now, like.

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Taking certain phrases from the 10,000

hours of Menace, how he had a way

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of hearing stuff that no one said.

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Did you expect people to, to gravitate to

that or gravitate to him like they have?

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No, I mentioned Menace and

I wanna say Capri three.

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Yeah, I think he first

was mentioning like 2.5,

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but not really much.

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And then 3.5

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is when he really showed that he's cuckoo.

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But after that, people were like.

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Menace.

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I like Menace.

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And I'm just like,

little do you guys know?

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Like he's going to be different.

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And when I first released his book, I was

like, I'm not even gonna just watch videos

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or nothing like that because I just know

they're gonna be like, oh, this crazy man.

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And then once his book dropped,

people was like, I love Menace.

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And I'm like, huh.

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'cause if we met Menace, real Live in

person, I would run, we would be getting,

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we would be asking for restraining orders.

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No one would be like, this

man is my man, my man, my man.

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Running like his red flags

all up and down menace.

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He is like, he is the walking red flag.

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He's a walking and I'm like,

everybody's like, oh, that's so cute.

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If Menace was under your bed smoking a

cigarette, a marker would be pulling the

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Speaker 2: police.

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Those of us who have

guns would've shot him.

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Speaker: I mean, it's cute and

infection we would be running for sure.

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I know I would.

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Speaker 2: Now that

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Speaker: ending in Art of a

Goon, it's cracking me up.

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I, I go into the, the, the chats and the

talks and people are literally creating.

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All of these stories about what

has happened, what happened at

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the end, who's the red hook?

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And I'm like, how was

Promise the red hook?

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People are like, it's promise.

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It's gotta be promised.

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And so now this, like the who

is the Red Hook killer has kind

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of taken on a life of its own.

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As I was sitting here going through and I

was like getting ready for to talk to you.

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I was like, when was it first mentioned?

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I kind of went back and I was like,

I don't remember the Red Hook hook

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killer being mentioned before.

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Initially, I thought it was like Em

three was the first time I heard it,

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but maybe it was somewhere up in emba.

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Did we hear about it before those books?

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Speaker 2: Now everybody's like,

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Speaker: and so, and so and so, and

then you really tipped it up when you

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were on the live with Turn the pay.

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Oh, so now it's chaos now.

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I think you kind of throw Easter eggs

in, and then I also think you throw

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stuff in there to throw people off.

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So now people are just like all over

the place with the Red Hook killer.

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And what happened at the

end of heart of a goon?

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Did you expect this kind

of reaction from that?

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Knew it would be chaos, but I didn't

think it was gonna be like this.

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Like see the Red Hook killer.

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At first I was like, what's RHK?

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I was out the loop.

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I'm like, oh, they don't abbreviate it.

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It's Red Hook Killer.

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So, um, I didn't expect it, but watching

who people think it is and trying to

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put the pieces together and try to

figure out, um, Cece's Uncle, what

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he had going on is hilarious because.

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I've seen Jean is a red

hook killer Wiley havoc.

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Like I've seen everybody named every

person, every character, the Red Hook

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killer, and I'm just like, guys, like

every killer on down to the babies.

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I was

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Speaker 2: like, okay.

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Even the babies in the

are in the run games.

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GS is in the running, so it, I'm

not gonna lie, it threw me off when

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Speaker: you.

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Refer back to Staten Island Love story.

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I was like, well, the only person

that kind of makes sense is Nash.

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Then I got, and then I remembered a part

of Staten Island love story, which I was

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like, I wonder if this has something,

'cause there's a part where Mo talks

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about Nash and how he ended up with the

marker that he, he knew that he saw his

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name in his father's files and he knew

that Nash owed his father money for

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someone that he had, that he had killed.

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But then there was a little bitty

thing and I thought, okay, well,

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well that doesn't make sense now.

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Um, where he says that his father

hadn't really pulled up on Nash about

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it because the man that was killed

was someone his, he wanted killed.

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So then that

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Speaker 2: threw me off

and I was like, okay.

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Even, I'm like, well,

hell, who is the damn?

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So you enjoy that.

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I do,

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Speaker: I do enjoy watching

everybody try to figure it out.

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And I'm just like, when it gets

to when you guys get high, I'll,

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like, they getting on my trail,

so I gotta go ahead and switch it.

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And it's so I've, so many times I've

said that, I've said somebody has gotten

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close because I feel like every time

someone gets close, you throw out another

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red herring, you're really diabolical.

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Speaker 2: Some of your, the way

you release your books are so

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Speaker: unique, like you release them,

like almost like movie premieres, like

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with trailers and teasers and countdowns.

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Is, are you, have you always

kind of done it that way or how

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did that kinda strategy evolve?

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Because I love the way you do that,

even, even the soundtrack to the

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book that you curate for each season.

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How did that evolve?

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So I started doing that

kind of with Capone.

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So I started messing around with

my different, how to release.

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I like, I wanted to keep it engaging

where everybody would be excited

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like, okay, this book is coming.

371

:

We were excited.

372

:

It's coming, but it's like.

373

:

The small things like the promo or

the, you know, the trailer or the

374

:

playlist or the Pinterest boards.

375

:

I love adding those things because

once they look at the Pinterest board,

376

:

they swear, they know the story,

how the story's gonna go, they're

377

:

piecing it together, like, mm-hmm.

378

:

Oh, she got palm trees,

so they're going this way.

379

:

And it never goes that way.

380

:

But I started with Capone and once

I realized everybody really did

381

:

like the rollouts, I continued with

Capadona and Capri and so forth.

382

:

So that's really how it started.

383

:

Like I always done playlists.

384

:

I've been doing playlists for years,

but just recently with the Delgado's,

385

:

I added the Pinterest boards and the

different, um, promo and stuff like that.

386

:

So even.

387

:

The playlist that you do, even those

are just highly anticipated and

388

:

people can't wait for the playlist.

389

:

Also, how do you curate those playlists?

390

:

Well, when I start my curating a

playlist, I'm usually curating a playlist.

391

:

When I'm currently working on a book,

like a different book, like now with

392

:

Goon, I've curated chorus book, so

it's usually never in real time.

393

:

It is just anytime I'm listening

to music, I'll feel like.

394

:

This actually really goes well with this

book or this goes well with that book.

395

:

And sometimes even when I'm still

like in Goon, there's some songs

396

:

that I'll listen to like, okay, let

me just add this onto the playlist.

397

:

Even though it's technically done, I'll

still add like a song or two that I

398

:

feel like needs to be on that playlist.

399

:

There was one, I was like, when

I first heard, um, this song from

400

:

Cardi B's new album, I was like, this

needs to be on the goon playlist.

401

:

'cause the moment I heard

it, I thought of Zoya.

402

:

That song Safe with Her and

Kani, and I think I added that.

403

:

Did you?

404

:

Okay.

405

:

I was like, no, that's them.

406

:

That is Goon and Soya in

this story, this song.

407

:

It really is.

408

:

Immediately I thought of them.

409

:

You, you've been really

intentional now about not giving

410

:

hard release dates anymore.

411

:

Has it affected your creative process

and your relationship with your re um.

412

:

It's hard because I, I be wanting to

share like, Hey guys, it's coming.

413

:

It's coming on such and such date, but

I know that I can't because they, some

414

:

do understand Amazon and some don't.

415

:

Mm-hmm.

416

:

Mm-hmm.

417

:

So if I say a date and I say like, Hey,

it's coming December 30th, and then it

418

:

doesn't release on December 30th at 12:00

AM they're beating down Amazon Wolves.

419

:

Like, Hey, where's this book?

420

:

So it, I've had to like.

421

:

Pull back on giving those release dates.

422

:

Mm-hmm.

423

:

Just because.

424

:

It's hard not telling them.

425

:

'cause when they ask, I be wanting to

put like, Hey, it's coming in two days.

426

:

But I started doing small things where

they'll notice, like I'll update my bio

427

:

and my Instagram about whatever book.

428

:

I have a section that says current book.

429

:

So once I update that, which I used to

think nobody paid attention to that, but

430

:

clearly like when I update that mm-hmm.

431

:

They will post it like, Hey,

she updated it, TU is coming or.

432

:

You know, question three is

coming and it's literally like, it

433

:

could be minutes after you post.

434

:

I'm still in the app at this point

when they, when they post it.

435

:

So I do small things where I don't

tell them the date, but they know

436

:

like, hey, she changed her bio,

she updated her profile pick.

437

:

Um, we ended up, you know, getting a

sneak peek so we know that it's coming.

438

:

So I understand 'cause

I'm an anxious girl that.

439

:

People get anxious.

440

:

So it's like at least this is something

to kind of soften not getting a release

441

:

that you just know that, okay, it's

about to come, but that pressure

442

:

must still be intense 'cause like

as, as soon as Har heart of a goon

443

:

drops and people were leaning like

the next day, when's Chorus coming?

444

:

How do you manage those expectations

while also still kind of

445

:

protecting your creative energy?

446

:

It's hard because as much as they want

when I release a book and they want

447

:

the next one, I wanna give it to them.

448

:

But it's also, I think I've

also spoiled a lot of them.

449

:

'cause they're so used to now

getting my book so fast because I

450

:

was in this whole creative bubble

and just writing, writing, writing.

451

:

And I still am.

452

:

But I've also realized I

have to slow down my release.

453

:

Mm-hmm.

454

:

Because they expect it.

455

:

And I'm like, these are not.

456

:

K books.

457

:

These are a hundred and a hundred.

458

:

I think June was 130 or 40 K.

459

:

So I'm like, these are a hundred, 140

k books that are released in months

460

:

apart where A month apart, where usually

it's, it's realistic to release every

461

:

three months or every six months.

462

:

So.

463

:

Yeah, I've started to pull back on

how quickly that I'm releasing because

464

:

while there's some that appreciate

it and they always show love, there's

465

:

also some that kind of get entitled

and it's kind of like, and I, I

466

:

wanna be like, get off my best.

467

:

'cause you know, in my

head you are my bestie.

468

:

I be like, back up off my bestie.

469

:

Now you've been.

470

:

Back to back to back.

471

:

There's Qem and Qim three, and I think the

weight, the anticipation for a qua three

472

:

and then going down the gun two and core.

473

:

What does Selfcare look like for you

when you're in the middle of this

474

:

release and the, you know, and then

you are shipping books and you're at

475

:

signings and it's so between because

between writing the promotional, the

476

:

book festival and life, it's a whole lot.

477

:

What does self-care look like for you?

478

:

Truthfully, I haven't had much self-care.

479

:

I've been go on a go, go, go.

480

:

But usually when I do have the

time, self-care is simple for me.

481

:

I like to get ice cream.

482

:

I like to watch my favorite shows.

483

:

Sometimes I like to cook.

484

:

I really do love deep

cleaning in my kitchen.

485

:

For some reason, the ideas go

crazy in my head about writing.

486

:

When I'm knee deep with

elbow, do deep in dishes.

487

:

Okay, that's different.

488

:

My self-care is super simple.

489

:

I love going to Marshalls or

raws, just seeing what they got.

490

:

Even though I know I got no

business being up in there.

491

:

When I was in treatment, I was doing

a lot of different T blends and matcha

492

:

and the, the whole process of making

it this ritual process calms me down,

493

:

centers me, because people are so

used to this hustle, hustle, hustle.

494

:

Mm-hmm.

495

:

So like for you,

496

:

Speaker 2: it's like,

497

:

Speaker: okay,

498

:

Speaker 2: let

499

:

Speaker: me

500

:

Speaker 2: go wash these dishes.

501

:

Speaker: I'm like a super simple person.

502

:

It's like people would think like, are

you going to go on a celebratory dinner?

503

:

Are you, no, I'm gonna do dishes.

504

:

I'm gonna probably watch my same show

that I've watched 70 million times.

505

:

And then when I do have time, I usually

read, but I don't have the time mostly

506

:

now to read as much as I love to.

507

:

But yeah, those are things that kind of

like, give me self care and if my husband

508

:

sees me too much in it, he'll, you know,

take me on a drive or something just

509

:

for me to get away from my computer.

510

:

And you said you, you like

you reading and your favorite,

511

:

what if shows are you watching?

512

:

So, I love The Crown on Netflix.

513

:

I've watched.

514

:

Really?

515

:

Yes, I've watched it.

516

:

Maybe I, I'm a little bit ashamed to

admit how many times I've watched it.

517

:

I've watched this show probably

about six or seven times.

518

:

It's my favorite comfort show to go

to because as somebody who writes

519

:

cliffhangers and you never know what's

gonna happen next, I make me anxious.

520

:

Um, I love mafia documentaries

and Chime and stuff like that.

521

:

So I'm in the animal planet.

522

:

I love watching Animal Planet.

523

:

Watch when I, when we're reading your

books, it's like some of the stuff though,

524

:

I'm like, that sounds real, real specific.

525

:

That sounds very, very authentic.

526

:

Especially when I was reading like

Capone's books and I would call like, you

527

:

know, homies or like my friend or family.

528

:

Does this sound like,

don't this sound real?

529

:

Nah.

530

:

She knows somebody.

531

:

She, she knows.

532

:

She knows, she know to me because

how do you get that authentic like,

533

:

nah, this don't sound fiction.

534

:

Right.

535

:

I literally just use my imagination.

536

:

I use some, some stuff that I do know

from real life experiences and I just

537

:

add them and then I just add a little

bit of other stuff up in there and I end

538

:

up coming up with what I come up with

across like these seasons and families.

539

:

Who are your favorite male and female

characters that you created, or is

540

:

there someone coming up that you're

like, he hasn't been written yet?

541

:

I would have to say EM is my favorite

because I feel like he gets so much

542

:

hate for being a grieving guy and.

543

:

I was like, this man literally loves

this girl and his baby a year later

544

:

and he can't be confused like I like.

545

:

He literally gets so much hate

for being unsure about Blair.

546

:

And then literally my favorite season

because for once it was literally the

547

:

female that was reassuring the guy.

548

:

Mm-hmm.

549

:

Letting him know kind of in a way, chasing

him, letting him know like, Hey, I'm here.

550

:

I wanna be with you.

551

:

I love you.

552

:

And from season one to three.

553

:

She had, you know,

Capone going after Aaron.

554

:

Mm-hmm.

555

:

Capna going after Eliam,

going after Capris.

556

:

So it was, for me, it

was a welcome change.

557

:

Oh, a female actually reassuring a man

because as much as we love, like the mmcs

558

:

and their unhinged and stuff like that,

in reality, some men need to be reinsured.

559

:

They need that level of mm-hmm.

560

:

Knowing like, I'm here,

I want to be with you.

561

:

And a lot of people love Sammy,

but a lot of people's, like, he

562

:

pisses me off and I'm just like.

563

:

Sheesh.

564

:

God forbid a guy loses his, his, yeah.

565

:

He literally, the throws of grief.

566

:

I think people, again, think

everybody processes grief.

567

:

Mm-hmm.

568

:

The same.

569

:

And it literally looks different

from, you know, from person to person.

570

:

And there's, there are times when.

571

:

I'll think of something or you know,

someone that, that's close to me has

572

:

passed and I'll literally be like, damn.

573

:

And just get, you know, yeah.

574

:

It just hits you, it

hits you out of nowhere.

575

:

Years later.

576

:

It could be, you know, two years

from now, 10 years from now.

577

:

Mm-hmm.

578

:

You know, it comes in waves.

579

:

It comes in waves and you just

don't know how it's gonna come.

580

:

His, his was so rich.

581

:

Recent, it wasn't like 10 years and he's

still like it was in the last year or two.

582

:

Like, can't, can he, can he have that?

583

:

And then he had to watch his brother,

like he has a whole niece that would be

584

:

around the same age as as his daughter.

585

:

So that was another, you know, kind of

thing where you think like she, if my

586

:

daughter was still here and I'm just like,

she can a guy not grieve and be unsure.

587

:

And then he had this woman who she had

cancer, so that was another scare where

588

:

yes, he lost his daughter to cancer.

589

:

Of losing somebody else

that kind of scared him too.

590

:

Qua Sim is my, he has a

special place in my heart.

591

:

He's, that's one of my favorite seasons.

592

:

Mm-hmm.

593

:

I love all my seasons, but his

season just hit different and I

594

:

think his was the most emotional.

595

:

Yeah.

596

:

For me, I, my favorite so far have

been Capri and em, and I think

597

:

because there was so much growth

in all of those characters, Blair,

598

:

em, Capri, Namir was always.

599

:

He knew.

600

:

He knew what he was.

601

:

Yeah.

602

:

He kind of knew what it was.

603

:

And Mir just got it together.

604

:

Like he didn't have to

go through anything.

605

:

Right.

606

:

He kind of knew like Capri was mine.

607

:

I'm not about to play games with

her, like I'm gonna marry her.

608

:

Exactly.

609

:

Speaker 2: So, but for em,

610

:

Speaker: the growth in his development and

his, just how he, you know, to see him.

611

:

We, we always saw the strong part of him.

612

:

But to see that vulnerable part, we say

we want these men with, um, emotional

613

:

intelligence and vulnerability.

614

:

And then you're like, he taking too long.

615

:

He right.

616

:

I thought we wanted someone with

some little emotional intelligence.

617

:

I think your male character, like for

real, your male character, a problematic

618

:

real life now because now everybody is

looking for a em or me hell, menace.

619

:

At this point.

620

:

I'm like, are we?

621

:

We really wanna menace in real life.

622

:

Okay.

623

:

Okay.

624

:

Okay.

625

:

How do you write these men who

are protective without being like.

626

:

Possessive it strong, but not

without being, well, without menace.

627

:

'cause I think Menace is in his own

lane, but, but then he's definitely

628

:

in his own because he Yeah.

629

:

But Menace is everything that

you just named he Exactly.

630

:

Speaker 2: Exactly.

631

:

But we still wanna, but

everybody except for Menace.

632

:

How do you

633

:

Speaker: write these guys?

634

:

I marry a mirror, a lot

of them off of my husband.

635

:

So, okay.

636

:

When I was developing a

Del, please tell me there's

637

:

Speaker 2: no menna in him.

638

:

No.

639

:

No.

640

:

Are you the menna in relationship?

641

:

I'm the men.

642

:

Speaker: So when I was developing the um,

Delgado series, I kind of wanted to do

643

:

a different approach when it came to the

mills, like from my previous, you know.

644

:

My males are good.

645

:

Mm-hmm.

646

:

They're good men and they have some kind

of flaws, but they weren't really like

647

:

that emotional, or they didn't mm-hmm.

648

:

You know, show that kind of affection

and not, not only towards their women,

649

:

but towards like their brothers and how

the delgado's, they're quick to drop a

650

:

kiss on each other's forehead and mm-hmm.

651

:

Embrace each other and

just all the males and.

652

:

So when I was developing that, I kind of

took all of that and put that into them.

653

:

'cause I really wanted to showcase

that these men, they go out in these

654

:

streets, they, they're shooting up

everything behind these females,

655

:

but when they come home, they're

the softest version of themselves

656

:

with their women and their family.

657

:

Absolutely.

658

:

Is there a character you've

written that surprised you?

659

:

Like they were supposed to be one thing,

but they're demanded to be something else?

660

:

Um, I would say Cora, sure, because

people think they know who Cora is.

661

:

You are only now just getting

a little taste of who she's,

662

:

'cause now she, I think, I think

everybody thinks she's Queen P now.

663

:

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

664

:

Speaker: Your dialogue.

665

:

There are certain times that these

are exactly like conversations

666

:

I've had with my friends or family.

667

:

How do you capture those voices?

668

:

Keep the dialogue sold, authentic?

669

:

Um, it's kind of like what you said,

like I literally, some of these

670

:

conversations are conversations that

when the delgado's are just joking

671

:

around with each other and teasing each

other, that is my family, like the Ellis.

672

:

We literally asked each

other like, you hate me.

673

:

Like, we literally asked each

other rhetoric, and that's

674

:

where I pulled it from.

675

:

We asked each other rhetorical

questions all the time that like, so

676

:

you said you, you want me toub my toe?

677

:

Like stuff where it's like anybody normal

walking into our house would be like,

678

:

all right, yeah, there's something wrong.

679

:

So I just literally pull, and

usually when I'm working on a

680

:

chapter or as a scene with heavy

dialogue, I see it in my head first.

681

:

So as I'm envisioning it and I'm hearing

the voices of what they're talking about

682

:

or what the scene is about, I'm just

literally just typing along to what I'm

683

:

already already envisioning in my head.

684

:

Okay.

685

:

Wow.

686

:

Well, you have such an extensive

universe, and especially now that all

687

:

of these universes tie together and

that connect from one story to the next.

688

:

For example, you, when you

said, you know, go back to, you

689

:

know, Staten Island love story.

690

:

With such an extensive universe,

how do you keep track of all these

691

:

details and these pot lines and

these, like is there some like massive

692

:

spreadsheet or murder board you have

with red streams kicking everything?

693

:

Because like it seems like you're

always kind of dropping these little.

694

:

And all of the stories that, and somehow

they'll all come back and connect.

695

:

For sure.

696

:

I do that all the time, and at first,

nobody really paid attention to them.

697

:

Like when, um, Kendra ran

into Corleone and nobody knew.

698

:

I drop them all the time and

even the smallest detail.

699

:

I always, when I'm writing, I'm like,

I hope they pay attention to this.

700

:

But some do some, like she don't give

a name unless that person's important,

701

:

so I need to remember this person.

702

:

Exactly, or just like the

Sabrina character, I was like,

703

:

okay, this has to be the missing

704

:

Speaker 2: woman that

Benny Hana was looking for.

705

:

Yeah.

706

:

I refuse to get that girl.

707

:

I mean, I, I, I had

708

:

Speaker: been calling her bingle

bop for a while and stuff like that.

709

:

It's like when you've seen people

get, like that enmeshed in, in your

710

:

universe, that they start saying and

doing these things and not even realize

711

:

it, that you are like, wait, that is

not that girl's name, but cracks me up

712

:

because I'm like, when you drop stuff

like that, I would've never paid

713

:

attention to that girl initially, unless.

714

:

Her name wouldn't have

been, she dropped her name.

715

:

That means something.

716

:

I feel like something else

is going to come back.

717

:

Um, it seemed innocuous like

just there, but I was like, no.

718

:

I feel like that's gonna be, like,

that's gonna come back around somehow.

719

:

I don't know if she's gonna be, you

know, there's gonna be another storyline,

720

:

but Navy's mom with her job and when.

721

:

She was talking to maybe for a birthday,

maybe she was talking about kids.

722

:

And the kids were part

of some missing kids.

723

:

They ended up being missing kids.

724

:

Yep.

725

:

And at first I thought, is

this another plot line that's

726

:

gonna go into another story?

727

:

Because it's not necessarily the

egg farming, it's not the red

728

:

hook, but this like missing kids.

729

:

But I feel like they all tie back the

red hook killer, the kid, the missing

730

:

kids and this egg thing are all gonna

come back together and interconnect.

731

:

Am I off there?

732

:

You are not.

733

:

You're not.

734

:

They are of a big story.

735

:

So I mentioned Navy's mom and her job

because it plays into goon series.

736

:

So you guys will find out what

that, when she had to, you know,

737

:

get those kids the missing kids.

738

:

You are gonna find out within Goons

story like who those missing kids are.

739

:

Everything seems so interconnected

and it's a lot of moving pieces.

740

:

What is your actual writing process?

741

:

Are you like, are you planning these

outlines or do the characters lead you?

742

:

Or once you start writing the

story, just kind of lead you there?

743

:

Or are you plotting

this out ahead of time?

744

:

So I've planned them out and I try to

stick to that plan, but these stories

745

:

and these characters, they take me.

746

:

I'll be like, well, now how

the hell did I end up here?

747

:

But I always.

748

:

Plot them out and try to stick as

close to the storyline as I can.

749

:

But mostly an idea will pop out

and I'll be like, you know what?

750

:

They will never suspect this.

751

:

I'm adding this like with boom two, like

the plot twist in that is kind of like,

752

:

you guys gonna be like, what the hell?

753

:

Jock Paul?

754

:

You just be behind there doing stuff.

755

:

I mean, I was like, what the hell?

756

:

At the end of doing few things,

you have like, okay, well how did

757

:

Inez know he was at this party?

758

:

How did Inez know who, how

does she know who 40 is?

759

:

Or, yeah.

760

:

Things like that.

761

:

So these are things that like

I wanted people to think like

762

:

she wouldn't know who 40 is.

763

:

She wouldn't know where

he's at this party.

764

:

Like she's the one who brought them there.

765

:

Who are they?

766

:

So it's like, it's so many questions.

767

:

Mm-hmm.

768

:

That I love to see where

people's heads are.

769

:

Most of them was like, it's the red

hood killer and I'm just watching.

770

:

I can't even keep it together.

771

:

How do you keep all of this together?

772

:

Lots of notes.

773

:

Like I have a ton of notes, I have

sticky notes everywhere, um, in my phone

774

:

notes, like it's just filled with nothing

but pen notes of any little thing.

775

:

Like if I'm driving and I'm like, oh,

okay, let me connect that there, I'm

776

:

just, I'm pulling over to the side

like, let me add and add this while it's

777

:

fresh in my mind 'cause I will forget.

778

:

And um, that's why sometimes

someone will be like, well you

779

:

have a Reggie that is a liar's dad.

780

:

Then you have Randy's dad.

781

:

That's Reggie.

782

:

And I'm like, girl, I forgot about Reggie.

783

:

I just thought of the name Reggie.

784

:

I swear they're not connected.

785

:

'cause at some places, well you have

different characters that have the same

786

:

name and I'm like, yeah, if I worked on

a book maybe four years ago, I promise

787

:

you, other than the main characters,

I don't remember the small people.

788

:

I don't remember.

789

:

Yeah.

790

:

It's so funny.

791

:

But, but you throw so much at people

now that people think everything

792

:

is something with you with it.

793

:

Now they don't trust me.

794

:

They do not trust me at all.

795

:

At all.

796

:

Because even I find myself like, hi, Lila.

797

:

Mm-hmm.

798

:

Why she say that?

799

:

That must mean something.

800

:

So I, I get it.

801

:

'cause now everything you write,

now people are rethinking.

802

:

Like, did she mean something by that?

803

:

The, the other thing is you, you

actually tackle some heavy topics

804

:

like trauma and addiction, family

dysfunction and, and violence.

805

:

There's still this happily ever

app, this happy element at the end.

806

:

How do you balance

between keeping it real?

807

:

And especially when you're doing

such a, a, um, a gritty series like

808

:

these that connect with, you know,

real life stuff and then giving

809

:

readers like hope at the same time.

810

:

I like usually when I'm adding

something that's real life a lot.

811

:

'cause I know it's fiction.

812

:

Mm-hmm.

813

:

And they're kind of like,

we just reading the escape.

814

:

But I also do love to add things

where people can relate that are real.

815

:

Like with Capone having sickle

cell, there is so many people that

816

:

reached out to me like I have sickle

cell and you know, nobody really

817

:

writes about it or understands it.

818

:

Mm-hmm.

819

:

Or, you know, touches on the

struggles that we go through.

820

:

And when I was researching it and

also knowing people that have it.

821

:

I felt like I needed to write

about it just to, to, you know,

822

:

put the awareness out there.

823

:

Mm-hmm.

824

:

I think with epilepsy, with, um, Capella

having epilepsy and a liar going through,

825

:

you know, her childhood trauma and, you

know, being a teen bride and stuff like

826

:

that, these are things that are really

happening and in my universe as much as

827

:

it's fun and we love the karaoke mm-hmm.

828

:

And the shootouts and the highways.

829

:

I also like to bring some kind of

realism to my universe because.

830

:

At the end of the day, some people

love reading about themselves in a book

831

:

where they can relate and like mm-hmm.

832

:

Okay.

833

:

Because sometimes you can't relate to

the character who, you know, she has

834

:

the hourglass body and she's perfect.

835

:

Mm-hmm.

836

:

And she shops all day and.

837

:

All of that.

838

:

So that's why I started making

my characters plus size.

839

:

Or they have, they go through something

or they have, you know, some kind of like

840

:

mental struggle or like with minutes.

841

:

Mm-hmm.

842

:

As crazy as he is.

843

:

It's kind of like people

are like, is he autistic?

844

:

And I'm like, do you think he's autistic?

845

:

But you know, people really

do have those, you know.

846

:

That they're going through.

847

:

Yeah.

848

:

So I love adding that into my universe.

849

:

Absolutely.

850

:

I thought about that when you, I

had a cousin that had sickle cell,

851

:

so, and you don't hear about it.

852

:

Of course.

853

:

One of the reasons is.

854

:

Overwhelmingly affects black people.

855

:

Mm-hmm.

856

:

So of course it's not something that

affects a general population and mm-hmm.

857

:

You know, you know, life

being what it is in America.

858

:

You don't hear about it a lot.

859

:

I like how you, you know, gave Erin

this beautiful woman and all of these

860

:

things, but then you gave her the issue

with her hair and, you know, having

861

:

her family be able to deal with it.

862

:

Your, your JA tribe.

863

:

So devoted and engaged, like they go hard.

864

:

For you, how has that community kind

of shaped your journey as as a writer?

865

:

It for sure has shaped my journey

because they're just down for anything.

866

:

I could literally say, Hey, I'm

going to write about dolphins.

867

:

Yeah, a dolphin gang.

868

:

And they're like, well shoot, then

we gonna beat about a dolphin gang.

869

:

It's 'cause they're so supportive.

870

:

So it makes writing easier and it

makes me want to give them, that's

871

:

why I give them books so fast.

872

:

'cause it's like, y'all really support me.

873

:

Y'all love this.

874

:

Like, this universe means as much

as it does to me to y'all too.

875

:

So it makes me want to go ahead

and keep pushing the books out.

876

:

So it, it means a lot.

877

:

Your books, they honestly could be a film

if, if you were to somebody were to adapt.

878

:

One of your books or start with

something, which one of the books would

879

:

you want to see adapted for TV or film?

880

:

The popular answer would be the

Delgado's, which I would love to see them.

881

:

I would love to see them on stars with

50 cents producing 'em and all of that.

882

:

But if I had to pick something besides the

Delgado's, I would love to see my Lennox

883

:

Hills series, because that is my favorite.

884

:

That is one of my favorite series.

885

:

It's one of my favorite too.

886

:

I love that series.

887

:

My God, everybody's always

surprised, like not the Del Gods.

888

:

I'm like, well, they came

before the Delgado's and

889

:

they're like my favorite series.

890

:

Yeah.

891

:

That was one of the series I

read when I was in treatment.

892

:

But I absolutely loved the Lennox Hills

series, and nobody ever talks about it.

893

:

Nobody does.

894

:

The dos have overshadowed them.

895

:

I think that dodos and furs and ca ca.

896

:

Overshadow everything because people

sometimes find me, they're still

897

:

finding me and they're like, I found

you through the Delgado, but I had

898

:

no idea that you have a back catalog.

899

:

Your What makes it your favorite?

900

:

It makes it my favorite because when

I was writing that series, I was

901

:

kind of in a dark time and I kind of

wanted to just write each character.

902

:

Just different, like with Astoria,

she was, you know, going through

903

:

this marriage that she shouldn't

have been in and trying to be a mom.

904

:

Mm-hmm.

905

:

And also, you know, being this person of

like the title, like, I'm fine, thanks.

906

:

And pushing through when

she really wasn't fine.

907

:

She was struggling, like

she was trying to be a mom.

908

:

She was trying to, she was a therapist

and then her husband wasn't nothing.

909

:

So I really wanted to, you know,

kind of write something for women

910

:

that seem like they're stuck in the

marriage and to get out if you can.

911

:

Speaker 4: And

912

:

Speaker: kind of put yourself first.

913

:

'cause she never put herself first.

914

:

She was just mm-hmm.

915

:

A mom then she was, well

she was a wife, then a mom.

916

:

So she never put herself

first until she met Bray.

917

:

And then with with Harlem, I wanted

to kind of touch on women that.

918

:

She's this influencer and

everybody thinks it's perfect.

919

:

And behind closed doors she's bulimic

and she struggles with self-confidence

920

:

and you know, that kind of stuff.

921

:

And then with Ember, I really wanted

to showcase like infertility and the

922

:

amount of women that have reached

out to me when, you know, struggle

923

:

with infertility and cried about that

book is one of my favorite books.

924

:

Yeah.

925

:

Um, I wanted to showcase that where,

you know, her infertility, it was.

926

:

The, you know, wrong time for her.

927

:

Like she eventually got her baby, but

it had to be with the right person, so.

928

:

Exactly.

929

:

It was not of a No, it

was a Not right now.

930

:

Not right now.

931

:

Like you said, the kind of the, the Dodos

and Fernos Ellis has kind of taken over.

932

:

Do you see yourself like, well, you

have the Brookwood SE series too.

933

:

Do you see yourself doing more

stuff like the, the UX Hills?

934

:

For sure, for sure.

935

:

Okay, good.

936

:

Yay.

937

:

How has your writing evolved from

when you first started to now

938

:

through these different themes, and

are there any themes or elements

939

:

that have become more important to

you from when you first started?

940

:

I've evolved a lot because when I

read my old, old books, I just cringe.

941

:

I'm like, but I won't change 'em.

942

:

'cause I like to see the change.

943

:

Anytime I'm struggling with

something, I like to go back and

944

:

be like, you was here and now look.

945

:

You're here.

946

:

Mm-hmm.

947

:

Mm-hmm.

948

:

But, um, I definitely, with my

writing now, I like to kind of give.

949

:

That well-rounded character bef as before,

like my male characters, I can even admit

950

:

they would be shitheads and then the book

will end and they will still shithead.

951

:

So I like to kind of

have them kind of grow.

952

:

Same with my female characters.

953

:

I like to have them like, yeah,

they may start off like, oh my

954

:

gosh, she's getting on my nerves.

955

:

But by the end, you're kind of like,

okay, I understand her, and like mm-hmm.

956

:

She's trying, and you

know, she's changing.

957

:

So I like to definitely give

well-rounded characters.

958

:

So by the time the book or the series

is ending, you are not like, well, he

959

:

still sucks, but you're like, oh, okay.

960

:

They went through all of this,

but they came out on other side.

961

:

I will say when I was starting

Kaan, I was like, he's, he's trash.

962

:

And which I found so hard is

like, why were people so hard on?

963

:

Capri as she kind of was kind of

navigating leaving Nahim, and I

964

:

was like, uh, her brother bust

down two of her best friends.

965

:

Like, is that not the same or

are we just forgetting that they

966

:

literally won't forget the male

could, you know, murder his grandma.

967

:

Yeah.

968

:

And go to her funeral and

knock her coffin down.

969

:

And a female could only just, you

know, pick up her wig and they're

970

:

like, why would she pick up the wig?

971

:

Why did she do this?

972

:

It is like they give no grace to

the females and the males can be the

973

:

biggest shitheads and they're like.

974

:

He's amazing.

975

:

I love him.

976

:

Speaker 2: Oh.

977

:

And they'll be like, oh,

he's just so misunderstood.

978

:

Speaker: Right.

979

:

So, okay, we have the Ellis.

980

:

You're about to add the ash borns.

981

:

I don't know if I saw anything.

982

:

Are the, am Montes getting a book?

983

:

Getting book?

984

:

Yes.

985

:

They're okay.

986

:

They, so we're staying in this

universe for a little bit.

987

:

Yeah.

988

:

Speaker 2: Like I said, we don't, we

are really like, yeah, what's next?

989

:

Speaker: And so Cora is up next.

990

:

No.

991

:

Yeah, no.

992

:

Is Cora next?

993

:

Or the second goon?

994

:

Next.

995

:

Second Goon is next, and then

Cora is coming right behind.

996

:

What can we expect from

997

:

Speaker 2: Cora?

998

:

Speaker: I think everybody will be

surprised by Cora just based off the

999

:

synopsis that's under her pre-order.

:

00:48:25,524 --> 00:48:28,494

They're gonna, they think it's gonna,

and it's kind of like the same with Dawn.

:

00:48:28,614 --> 00:48:31,854

Everybody just knew Dawn

was gonna be with Kennedy.

:

00:48:32,064 --> 00:48:33,474

I didn't, I did not.

:

00:48:33,564 --> 00:48:37,134

I, everybody swore think

Dawn would be with Kennedy.

:

00:48:37,224 --> 00:48:38,364

I didn't, I don't know.

:

00:48:38,364 --> 00:48:41,184

It was just like, no, I

don't think it's Kennedy.

:

00:48:41,364 --> 00:48:42,804

She's gonna throw a twist in here.

:

00:48:43,014 --> 00:48:44,934

I don't, I'm not saying

I don't like Kennedy.

:

00:48:45,339 --> 00:48:47,139

But Kennedy got some work to do.

:

00:48:47,469 --> 00:48:47,769

Yeah.

:

00:48:47,774 --> 00:48:49,779

She, she has, she has a lot of work to do.

:

00:48:50,829 --> 00:48:52,389

Kennedy need to go sit on Dr.

:

00:48:52,389 --> 00:48:53,049

Killian's too.

:

00:48:53,289 --> 00:48:54,549

She does, she does.

:

00:48:54,549 --> 00:48:57,519

She need, I don't even think she needs

to sit, she needs to lay across it.

:

00:48:57,519 --> 00:48:57,879

Yeah.

:

00:48:57,879 --> 00:48:58,394

Get a blanket.

:

00:48:58,989 --> 00:48:59,679

Yeah.

:

00:48:59,679 --> 00:49:03,729

I'm like, Kennedy girl, you

not going outside like this.

:

00:49:03,789 --> 00:49:04,359

Just tell me.

:

00:49:04,389 --> 00:49:04,749

Okay.

:

00:49:04,899 --> 00:49:05,289

Hint.

:

00:49:05,409 --> 00:49:06,579

Does she turn it around?

:

00:49:07,449 --> 00:49:10,539

She does, does get a redemption story.

:

00:49:10,839 --> 00:49:11,139

Oh God, thank you.

:

00:49:11,139 --> 00:49:14,234

Which everybody didn't want

her to, but I'm like, I do.

:

00:49:15,024 --> 00:49:19,314

She went through so much and I think a

lot of it is, so much has happened since

:

00:49:19,314 --> 00:49:21,084

we last mentioned Kennedy and Capri.

:

00:49:21,084 --> 00:49:21,174

Mm-hmm.

:

00:49:21,429 --> 00:49:21,789

Mm-hmm.

:

00:49:21,874 --> 00:49:24,084

That people forget what

really happened to her.

:

00:49:24,144 --> 00:49:24,684

Yes.

:

00:49:24,684 --> 00:49:24,894

So.

:

00:49:25,629 --> 00:49:31,059

She's this person who kind of, why her and

Zoya kind of look like were the closest.

:

00:49:31,359 --> 00:49:31,449

Mm-hmm.

:

00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:35,709

They kind of put things behind them

like it happened, now we're moving on.

:

00:49:35,979 --> 00:49:39,279

So she never really dealt

with what happened to her.

:

00:49:39,519 --> 00:49:39,789

Mm-hmm.

:

00:49:39,795 --> 00:49:39,864

So.

:

00:49:40,554 --> 00:49:44,214

I felt like a lot of people when they

met her in Dawn's book and really

:

00:49:44,214 --> 00:49:48,564

finally got, you know, a point of view

from her that they kind of forgot, like

:

00:49:48,714 --> 00:49:50,274

this girl went through some things.

:

00:49:50,274 --> 00:49:50,364

Yeah.

:

00:49:51,054 --> 00:49:54,594

Like, did y'all forget what

Menace had to do behind her?

:

00:49:54,864 --> 00:49:55,764

Exactly.

:

00:49:55,764 --> 00:49:57,384

So I feel like they forget.

:

00:49:57,654 --> 00:50:02,454

So Kennedy is gonna get a redemption

arc, which I love because I, when

:

00:50:02,454 --> 00:50:06,354

people didn't like her, I'm like,

yes, she did some shitty things.

:

00:50:06,354 --> 00:50:06,984

Yes.

:

00:50:06,989 --> 00:50:11,759

She was a little selfish, but I

also get where she's coming from.

:

00:50:11,759 --> 00:50:12,234

She mm-hmm.

:

00:50:12,569 --> 00:50:17,039

Was more so as much as menace and Dawn

was saying, Hey, we'll take care of you.

:

00:50:17,309 --> 00:50:22,379

She also realized, hey, if he chooses

me, that's him and his brother.

:

00:50:22,379 --> 00:50:23,189

I'm the reason.

:

00:50:23,189 --> 00:50:23,279

Mm-hmm.

:

00:50:23,699 --> 00:50:27,989

He, him and his brother won't

have a relationship, so that's

:

00:50:27,989 --> 00:50:32,789

why she picked the security of

the, um, older guy versus Dawn.

:

00:50:32,819 --> 00:50:34,199

'cause she knew what came with that.

:

00:50:35,094 --> 00:50:38,784

Dawn willing to go against

his brother to be with her.

:

00:50:39,684 --> 00:50:40,164

Exactly.

:

00:50:40,164 --> 00:50:43,194

I feel like, I think readers

are treating Kennedy like they

:

00:50:43,194 --> 00:50:44,634

treated Amy in the beginning.

:

00:50:44,694 --> 00:50:44,904

Yeah.

:

00:50:44,904 --> 00:50:47,094

And now Amy, everybody's

like, oh, big Amy.

:

00:50:47,274 --> 00:50:47,844

Big pre.

:

00:50:48,294 --> 00:50:52,224

But they talk so bad in the the

beginning, they talk shit about poor Amy.

:

00:50:52,314 --> 00:50:58,074

They did not see like she had so much

going on and she, and I forget, I think,

:

00:50:58,829 --> 00:51:00,594

and I think they forget she was a kid.

:

00:51:00,594 --> 00:51:01,614

She was 20.

:

00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:03,744

They, they

:

00:51:04,074 --> 00:51:05,094

Speaker 2: were very young.

:

00:51:05,124 --> 00:51:05,634

Speaker: Yes.

:

00:51:05,634 --> 00:51:06,879

Somebody admitted they was like.

:

00:51:07,524 --> 00:51:08,184

Well, dang.

:

00:51:08,184 --> 00:51:12,714

I really did forget that Capella and

Amy aren't the same age as you know,

:

00:51:12,714 --> 00:51:16,134

the rest of them I'm like, they're the

youngest, and Capella is younger than

:

00:51:16,134 --> 00:51:18,144

Amy, and Capella is younger than Amy.

:

00:51:18,144 --> 00:51:22,404

So no, they were more closer to

age than to Jaden than they are to

:

00:51:22,404 --> 00:51:23,964

the other, you know, characters.

:

00:51:24,294 --> 00:51:30,204

So I'm like, some of the decisions that

they made while us in our thirties,

:

00:51:30,204 --> 00:51:34,734

forties, or fifties and beyond wouldn't

have made those decisions there.

:

00:51:35,099 --> 00:51:38,159

Early twenties, those seemed

what was right for them.

:

00:51:38,619 --> 00:51:40,389

At that time exactly.

:

00:51:40,389 --> 00:51:45,399

I'm like, Amy literally went

through so much and like, like that.

:

00:51:45,399 --> 00:51:47,199

Like why is she so dumb?

:

00:51:47,199 --> 00:51:49,899

Like, I'm like, it's a trauma response.

:

00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:51,309

It wasn't just her mom.

:

00:51:51,309 --> 00:51:52,239

How her mom treated her.

:

00:51:52,244 --> 00:51:52,344

Yes.

:

00:51:52,524 --> 00:51:54,909

Her father being, you know, gone and like.

:

00:51:55,509 --> 00:51:56,379

And people don't know.

:

00:51:56,379 --> 00:51:59,619

And I was like, I said, well damn, I

didn't even go through the kind of trauma

:

00:51:59,619 --> 00:52:04,209

and I would hate people to know the dumb

ass decision I made when I was 19 and

:

00:52:04,209 --> 00:52:04,689

Speaker 2: 20.

:

00:52:04,899 --> 00:52:05,829

Like I was think

:

00:52:05,829 --> 00:52:08,739

Speaker: now I sit back now like,

girl, what were you thinking?

:

00:52:09,189 --> 00:52:09,849

Yes.

:

00:52:10,449 --> 00:52:14,409

Like, and that's the beauty in growing

older, becoming wiser and mature.

:

00:52:14,409 --> 00:52:16,839

You kind of like, why the

hell was I doing that?

:

00:52:17,169 --> 00:52:17,634

Like what?

:

00:52:17,634 --> 00:52:22,179

And they, they didn't get there 'cause

they're currently going through it so.

:

00:52:22,644 --> 00:52:25,944

Amy had to go through these

things and it's kind of like,

:

00:52:25,944 --> 00:52:27,234

they're like, she's so dumb.

:

00:52:27,444 --> 00:52:29,064

She should have told Kap she should have.

:

00:52:29,184 --> 00:52:31,824

Are you forgetting that her

family, literally her own

:

00:52:31,824 --> 00:52:33,444

blood were calling her liars?

:

00:52:33,684 --> 00:52:33,774

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

:

00:52:34,014 --> 00:52:34,224

So do you

:

00:52:34,224 --> 00:52:37,374

Speaker: not see, even no matter how

much Kap had reassured her, like,

:

00:52:37,374 --> 00:52:43,254

Hey, I'm here for you, or this or

that, it's a response to being called

:

00:52:43,254 --> 00:52:44,934

a liar by her own blood family.

:

00:52:45,294 --> 00:52:47,274

They didn't even believe

that she had been raped.

:

00:52:47,634 --> 00:52:48,024

Right.

:

00:52:48,024 --> 00:52:48,474

For years.

:

00:52:48,474 --> 00:52:49,209

She's been called a liar.

:

00:52:49,209 --> 00:52:50,214

Oh wait, did she didn't tell that?

:

00:52:50,214 --> 00:52:50,604

Did she?

:

00:52:50,724 --> 00:52:51,564

Yeah, she did tell them.

:

00:52:51,569 --> 00:52:52,824

She, did she tell her mom?

:

00:52:52,824 --> 00:52:56,004

Yeah, they, they, the mom basically

was like, why are you making up stuff?

:

00:52:56,214 --> 00:52:59,844

Like, so if your own family, why

would you think somebody else

:

00:52:59,844 --> 00:53:00,924

would be like that there for you?

:

00:53:00,924 --> 00:53:01,854

So, yeah, I got it.

:

00:53:01,854 --> 00:53:06,444

And I think I, and I feel like

they're, they're like, they talk about

:

00:53:06,594 --> 00:53:09,624

Kennedy in the same way and I was

like, nah, I feel like Kim Kennedy

:

00:53:09,659 --> 00:53:11,784

needs a, she needs a redemption.

:

00:53:12,384 --> 00:53:13,404

She does.

:

00:53:13,494 --> 00:53:14,274

She does.

:

00:53:14,814 --> 00:53:19,254

What do you hope readers take away

from your story beyond just the

:

00:53:19,254 --> 00:53:21,174

romance and the happily ever after?

:

00:53:22,284 --> 00:53:29,364

I hope they take away that you could,

whatever lesson in whatever season,

:

00:53:29,784 --> 00:53:34,374

like as far as with Capri, I hoped

when they read it, which a lot of them

:

00:53:34,374 --> 00:53:39,204

did, they took away that, that you can

still get your happy ever, ever after.

:

00:53:39,714 --> 00:53:40,254

And that.

:

00:53:41,109 --> 00:53:43,569

You can still be this big mama.

:

00:53:43,629 --> 00:53:47,589

Like we go through stages and with

Capri, Lord knows Capri went through

:

00:53:47,589 --> 00:53:51,819

many stages, but at the end of the

day, she still came out on top.

:

00:53:52,089 --> 00:53:53,559

She still put her first.

:

00:53:53,559 --> 00:53:53,799

Mm-hmm.

:

00:53:53,805 --> 00:53:54,244

Herself first.

:

00:53:54,399 --> 00:53:56,049

And that's what I wanted for every woman.

:

00:53:56,049 --> 00:54:01,089

Like if you ever lost yourself, you know,

put yourself first to find yourself again.

:

00:54:01,569 --> 00:54:04,779

Let's do this wicked

quick, rapid fire round.

:

00:54:04,929 --> 00:54:06,069

First thing that come to your mind.

:

00:54:07,629 --> 00:54:08,679

Hardest season to write.

:

00:54:08,829 --> 00:54:10,189

I'm gonna go with season four.

:

00:54:10,914 --> 00:54:11,574

Season four.

:

00:54:11,844 --> 00:54:14,364

That was em em, right?

:

00:54:14,364 --> 00:54:14,604

Yeah.

:

00:54:15,594 --> 00:54:17,454

Character you'd want to have dinner with.

:

00:54:17,544 --> 00:54:20,274

I would like to have dinner

with Aya because my Aya cooking

:

00:54:20,514 --> 00:54:23,069

really see Stevie cooking.

:

00:54:23,429 --> 00:54:27,654

I think Stevie would be

hoo, um, book boyfriend.

:

00:54:27,654 --> 00:54:29,184

You would choose for yourself.

:

00:54:29,304 --> 00:54:31,764

And I think I noticed, 'cause I think

we kind of talked about it, touched on

:

00:54:31,764 --> 00:54:33,804

it, but um, I'm gonna go with Big Cat.

:

00:54:34,524 --> 00:54:34,704

Speaker 2: Really?

:

00:54:35,154 --> 00:54:35,544

I thought you.

:

00:54:38,034 --> 00:54:40,779

Speaker: Of course Tim, but I

would've have to go with Big Cat.

:

00:54:40,899 --> 00:54:44,199

Your writing snack of choice,

what do you like to snack on?

:

00:54:44,739 --> 00:54:45,249

Dots.

:

00:54:45,249 --> 00:54:45,939

Pretzels.

:

00:54:47,259 --> 00:54:47,739

Really?

:

00:54:47,859 --> 00:54:48,279

Yeah.

:

00:54:48,279 --> 00:54:49,449

They're my favorite Pretzels.

:

00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:49,899

Okay.

:

00:54:50,559 --> 00:54:53,199

And lately it's been

Doritos, nacho cheese.

:

00:54:53,199 --> 00:54:57,099

I don't know how long this phase is

gonna last, but lately it's been.

:

00:54:58,194 --> 00:55:00,234

Like I'm, I'm in this whole popcorn thing.

:

00:55:00,234 --> 00:55:02,874

I got a popcorn maker

last year for my birthday.

:

00:55:02,874 --> 00:55:06,249

Like one of those got like movie,

big movie theater popcorn makers.

:

00:55:06,534 --> 00:55:07,584

So now I'm like the pop.

:

00:55:07,584 --> 00:55:10,614

I'm like doing all kind

of seasonings and dessert.

:

00:55:10,734 --> 00:55:12,114

Popcorn and popcorn.

:

00:55:12,144 --> 00:55:14,064

I'm like, I'm making everybody popcorn.

:

00:55:14,184 --> 00:55:15,954

So everybody's getting

popcorn for Christmas.

:

00:55:15,954 --> 00:55:16,434

I don't care.

:

00:55:16,494 --> 00:55:22,854

Most challenging scene you've written I'm

gonna go with in sim when Elijah has to

:

00:55:22,884 --> 00:55:25,224

basically tell Blair what happened to him.

:

00:55:26,499 --> 00:55:29,709

It was challenging 'cause I

wanted to paint the picture

:

00:55:29,709 --> 00:55:31,209

but not tell the picture.

:

00:55:31,214 --> 00:55:31,384

Mm-hmm.

:

00:55:31,484 --> 00:55:31,959

So, mm-hmm.

:

00:55:32,199 --> 00:55:36,759

I had to rewrite that chapter

over maybe about seven times

:

00:55:36,759 --> 00:55:38,109

before I felt it was right.

:

00:55:38,379 --> 00:55:38,679

Speaker 2: Oh

:

00:55:38,739 --> 00:55:39,339

Speaker: wow.

:

00:55:39,339 --> 00:55:39,999

I can see that.

:

00:55:40,089 --> 00:55:40,659

I can see that.

:

00:55:40,744 --> 00:55:43,809

'cause I mean, it's, it's,

it's heartbreaking And I feel

:

00:55:43,809 --> 00:55:44,949

like we not finished with that.

:

00:55:45,609 --> 00:55:46,599

I think that's coming back.

:

00:55:46,604 --> 00:55:46,924

We're not, we're not,

:

00:55:47,829 --> 00:55:49,749

Speaker 2: so are all

of these also sealed the

:

00:55:49,749 --> 00:55:50,169

Speaker: Elijah?

:

00:55:50,349 --> 00:55:50,769

Well, yeah.

:

00:55:50,769 --> 00:55:51,819

That's gotta tie in because

:

00:55:51,819 --> 00:55:52,479

Speaker 2: that doctor

:

00:55:52,484 --> 00:55:52,544

Speaker: mm-hmm.

:

00:55:52,624 --> 00:55:53,144

Is part of the

:

00:55:53,144 --> 00:55:53,504

Speaker 2: egg farming.

:

00:55:54,894 --> 00:55:55,164

Speaker: Yep.

:

00:55:55,224 --> 00:55:56,364

Okay.

:

00:55:56,364 --> 00:55:56,384

Okay, okay.

:

00:55:56,384 --> 00:55:56,394

Okay.

:

00:55:56,724 --> 00:55:58,614

I, I'm not gonna go back

down this rabbit hole.

:

00:55:58,734 --> 00:56:05,454

Um, one trope you, I dunno if you really

write in tropes though, um, but tropes

:

00:56:05,454 --> 00:56:06,924

that you'll never get tired of writing,

:

00:56:07,734 --> 00:56:08,844

Speaker 2: I love the age gap.

:

00:56:09,534 --> 00:56:09,954

Okay.

:

00:56:09,954 --> 00:56:10,194

Really?

:

00:56:10,914 --> 00:56:14,724

Yeah, because there's an age

gap with Core and Skyler.

:

00:56:15,744 --> 00:56:15,924

Like what?

:

00:56:15,929 --> 00:56:16,039

Lauren

:

00:56:16,044 --> 00:56:19,044

Speaker: Skyler Ka and Elia, um, KA and

:

00:56:19,044 --> 00:56:19,734

Speaker 2: Elia.

:

00:56:20,244 --> 00:56:23,514

Speaker: Is there a big

much with Aaron and.

:

00:56:23,919 --> 00:56:24,609

Capone did.

:

00:56:24,609 --> 00:56:28,299

It is not so much, 'cause everyone

was already in her thirties, but Okay.

:

00:56:28,419 --> 00:56:29,739

It's a little bit of an age gap.

:

00:56:29,859 --> 00:56:34,719

I love a age gap and it's

like a 15 year gap for

:

00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:35,289

Speaker 2: Skylar and

:

00:56:35,289 --> 00:56:35,859

Speaker: Core, right?

:

00:56:36,424 --> 00:56:36,714

Speaker 2: Yeah.

:

00:56:36,714 --> 00:56:37,034

Around that.

:

00:56:37,164 --> 00:56:37,874

She's like 21.

:

00:56:38,024 --> 00:56:38,314

Speaker: Yeah.

:

00:56:38,314 --> 00:56:38,714

Mm-hmm.

:

00:56:39,024 --> 00:56:39,634

Speaker 2: He's young.

:

00:56:40,809 --> 00:56:41,289

Yeah.

:

00:56:41,289 --> 00:56:42,874

Speaker: And Skylar is the one that ka.

:

00:56:44,304 --> 00:56:44,964

Was in the trap house.

:

00:56:44,964 --> 00:56:45,054

Right?

:

00:56:45,054 --> 00:56:46,044

Saved in the trap house.

:

00:56:46,074 --> 00:56:46,284

Yep.

:

00:56:46,284 --> 00:56:46,914

Saved in the trap.

:

00:56:46,914 --> 00:56:47,934

One last question.

:

00:56:48,354 --> 00:56:49,284

Who are you reading?

:

00:56:49,284 --> 00:56:53,574

Like I see like all these authors

that are like, you know, on Jacque and

:

00:56:53,574 --> 00:56:55,269

reading Jacque, who is Jacque reading.

:

00:56:56,454 --> 00:57:01,434

Um, right now currently I'm reading

Shenora Williams, her Oh yes.

:

00:57:01,704 --> 00:57:04,764

Book that comes out I believe

in December next month.

:

00:57:04,884 --> 00:57:06,954

I wanna say It's Sweet Little Hearts.

:

00:57:07,014 --> 00:57:08,094

It's the second book.

:

00:57:08,094 --> 00:57:08,184

Yes.

:

00:57:08,334 --> 00:57:09,264

In her series.

:

00:57:09,594 --> 00:57:09,714

Yep.

:

00:57:09,714 --> 00:57:12,534

So I'm actually reading that

as much as I wanna, like I.

:

00:57:12,949 --> 00:57:16,489

When I first got it, I was on the

couch glued and then I'm like, I

:

00:57:16,489 --> 00:57:18,229

cannot keep ignoring these emails.

:

00:57:18,229 --> 00:57:20,509

I cannot keep ignoring

the responsibilities.

:

00:57:20,989 --> 00:57:21,829

So I'm excited.

:

00:57:21,829 --> 00:57:24,019

Dam it to finally finish that up.

:

00:57:24,559 --> 00:57:27,019

Tan V she has, um, her rugby mm-hmm.

:

00:57:27,259 --> 00:57:28,249

Book that's dropping.

:

00:57:28,249 --> 00:57:31,639

So I'm trying to finish up Shara's

book so I can jump to that.

:

00:57:32,269 --> 00:57:33,469

So, okay.

:

00:57:33,469 --> 00:57:36,649

I guess I, I wanted to ask some other

stuff, but I know you ain't gonna

:

00:57:36,649 --> 00:57:37,129

Speaker 2: tell me.

:

00:57:37,219 --> 00:57:41,389

Can I get a, a hint

what's coming in goon too?

:

00:57:42,429 --> 00:57:43,719

Or do I want a hint from Quora?

:

00:57:44,379 --> 00:57:45,759

Can I get a hint from one one

:

00:57:45,759 --> 00:57:46,239

Speaker: or the other?

:

00:57:47,619 --> 00:57:54,999

Um, from Goon to, I'm gonna go with

Expect the Unexpected because everyone

:

00:57:54,999 --> 00:57:59,409

thinks they know who the Red Killer

is, and nobody that I've seen make

:

00:57:59,409 --> 00:58:02,259

videos or in comments has guested.

:

00:58:02,889 --> 00:58:02,979

Mm-hmm.

:

00:58:03,249 --> 00:58:08,619

So when you guys, and then when you guys

really, you know, get the whole lore of

:

00:58:08,619 --> 00:58:10,209

the Red Hook kill, you're gonna be like.

:

00:58:12,219 --> 00:58:13,059

Jaquell.

:

00:58:13,059 --> 00:58:16,329

This has been everything

I hope for and more.

:

00:58:16,929 --> 00:58:21,249

Your work literally got me through

one of the hardest times in my life,

:

00:58:21,369 --> 00:58:23,229

and I know I'm not alone in that.

:

00:58:24,039 --> 00:58:28,809

The universes you create, the families

you build, the love stories you

:

00:58:28,809 --> 00:58:31,539

tell, they're more than just books.

:

00:58:31,869 --> 00:58:35,529

Their experiences, their

community, their home.

:

00:58:36,399 --> 00:58:41,199

Thank you for your time, your talent,

and for trusting us with these stories.

:

00:58:41,409 --> 00:58:42,849

Thank you so much for having me.

:

00:58:42,849 --> 00:58:45,249

I appreciate you having me on.

:

00:58:45,429 --> 00:58:45,999

Speaker 2: Yay.

:

00:58:45,999 --> 00:58:46,629

Thank you so much.

:

00:58:46,629 --> 00:58:47,619

Loving my stories.

:

00:58:52,659 --> 00:58:55,869

What Jaquell does and

what makes her work so

:

00:58:55,869 --> 00:59:01,359

Speaker: essential is she shows us that

putting yourself first isn't selfish.

:

00:59:01,899 --> 00:59:02,889

It's survival.

:

00:59:03,699 --> 00:59:08,649

It's how you find your way back to

yourself and for black women who've

:

00:59:08,649 --> 00:59:13,689

been taught our whole lives to pour

from empty cups, to be strong for

:

00:59:13,749 --> 00:59:16,809

everyone else, to put ourselves last.

:

00:59:17,379 --> 00:59:19,719

These stories are revolutionary.

:

00:59:20,919 --> 00:59:22,119

Capris journey.

:

00:59:22,479 --> 00:59:27,879

All these women's journeys across the

JA Universe, their permission slips,

:

00:59:28,569 --> 00:59:30,744

they're saying you can be messy.

:

00:59:31,494 --> 00:59:33,174

You can lose yourself.

:

00:59:33,564 --> 00:59:39,114

You can go through your stages and you

still deserve your happily ever after.

:

00:59:39,984 --> 00:59:42,564

You still deserve to come out on top.

:

00:59:43,494 --> 00:59:45,474

That's not just romance, y'all.

:

00:59:45,984 --> 00:59:50,574

That's ministry, and that's

why we need these stories.

:

00:59:50,574 --> 00:59:57,384

That's why representation matters, because

sometimes you need to see someone who

:

00:59:57,384 --> 01:00:00,324

looks like you choose herself first.

:

01:00:00,894 --> 01:00:03,594

So you remember that You can too.

:

01:00:05,484 --> 01:00:06,714

Culture lit family.

:

01:00:07,074 --> 01:00:13,524

If you haven't started the Delgado Inferno

ca verse yet, what are you waiting for?

:

01:00:14,424 --> 01:00:15,624

Clear your schedule.

:

01:00:15,894 --> 01:00:21,174

Stock up on snacks and prepare to

get your entire life rearranged.

:

01:00:21,894 --> 01:00:25,884

Don't forget to subscribe,

rate and review the podcast.

:

01:00:26,499 --> 01:00:30,549

Share this episode with everyone

who needs to join the Jaw Tribe.

:

01:00:31,269 --> 01:00:36,369

Until next time, keep reading,

keep loving, and keep celebrating

:

01:00:36,369 --> 01:00:37,794

the stories that move us.

:

01:00:44,109 --> 01:00:47,559

You've been listening to Culture

Lit with Octavia Marie, and

:

01:00:47,559 --> 01:00:48,879

that's all for us this week.

:

01:00:49,359 --> 01:00:53,649

Be sure to listen, download, or subscribe

to more episodes of Culture Lit.

:

01:00:54,459 --> 01:00:58,689

You can find culture lit on

Apple Podcast, Spotify, or

:

01:00:58,689 --> 01:01:00,609

wherever you listen to podcasts.

:

01:01:00,879 --> 01:01:04,364

Apple listeners, please be sure to leave

a review and let us know what you think.

:

01:01:05,364 --> 01:01:09,624

Don't forget to talk to me on social

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:

01:01:09,624 --> 01:01:14,694

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Culture Lit
A Black Romance Books Podcast

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Octavia Dosier